It's time for some big change.

I consider this account an important chapter in my life

Selcuk Bor @MaestroRage

Age 37, Male

eCommerce Manager

Toronto

Joined on 8/22/06

Stock Music and More

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It's time for some big change.

Posted by MaestroRage - June 20th, 2008

For a long while now i've been looking for something new. For years i've been using the same tools, the same sounds, the same set up. These tools have long list their ability to inspire and have in fact began to deform my dreams and visions. Slow progress has become almost non existent and with time it gets worse. This is no writers block. No, this is something much more permanent.

For this reason I have taken up a full time job, which eats up roughly 50 hours a week. I intentionally asked for this gross overtime because of overtime pay (1.5 times normal pay for every hour above 40).

I have decided to COMPLETELY rehaul my setup. It would be stupid to say i'm going to get rid off all my other tools. A mighty penny given for them, and hell if i'm going to lose them. But i've forced myself to use these uninspiring sounds time and time again because I DID pay for them.

But now i'm going to come out of the closet, and just say what I want to say.

East West... you guys have dropped the ball so many times, and have produced such mediocre crap recently that i've lost all faith in continuing my dreams with you. Your sounds have become grating, your attitude has become snotty and pretentious (these guys are like the Microsoft for audio software), and I will have nothing more to do with you.

I was young, I was blind, I went for the biggest library with the lowest cost. I'm still young and blind, but not so blind that I don't see your gaping holes anymore. I'm done with you.

Feels good to say that. Feels bad that I have to now scrounge up 2.5 grand to re-establish. The site does enough to maintain itself, and provides no additional income *i'm fine with that*, and the free work I do does nothing for me *not that I plan to change that*

so for the next 2 months (planned to get $3,200 by then), my small corner on the internet will dwindle, and may slowly die. I hope most of you will still be here to hear the muse spinning my gears when return :D!

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WritersBlock 2008-06-20 22:50:14

Please tell all when you do get your new set up.
I, myself am saving up for the EW programs. But I don't think it'll bother me as it does you, because I think that you have much more ambition than myself.

Good luck with your work and your music. Hope to see ya bigger and better on the return.

MaestroRage 2008-06-20 22:50:14

I wouldn't say I have more ambition. It's largely like... well you know how everybody hates Sytrus? It's something like that. I've used, and heard these samples SO much that i've begun to hear the songs in my head with them, and since i'm no longer a big fan of those sounds, the inspiration hits less often, and less effectively.

I will let you know with progress. Thus far I have accrued roughly $220

Suspended-3rd-Chord 2008-06-21 00:46:40

I'm kind of in the same boat, I*ve been use EW since December but the samples are already starting to get dry. Not that they sound bad, just dry. I'm trying to get better at manipulating sound so I might be able to crank up a different texture each time around. Instrumentation is a very important element of music creations, and I hate to use the same sounds over and over again - so I'm not done with EW, just the symphonic orchestra sounds. I really want to buy RA, I have the money, but I'm just afraid that once I buy them I'll loose interest in making music alltogether.

But for what you are going for, what better libraries are there out there? I've talked to many pro film composers and they use the EW libraries primarily. Where do you find them mediocre? There's Vienna Symphonjc, Gigastudio samples...that's about it (Garritan and Edirol are not at that level) but that's pretty much it from my knowledge. There only place up from you were are is a real life symphony, i'd say.

All I'm saying is if you plan on sticking with your style, I don't see no point in saving up a couple grand to start over....sorry, I just really don't see where you are coming from :/

If you meant upgrading from FL Studio, then I completely understand. But you didnt mention that here so I don't think that's part of your point.

I will always be waiting for you, my love (no homo). You will not be forgotten. Loved, hated, you are a legend. To all of us on newgrounds. Best of luck!

MaestroRage 2008-06-21 00:46:40

hey S3C.

So you are already very well aware of the dry sounds that you hear with the library. The sounds in the EW Gold bundle do not have different mic adjustments, so it is really hard to make what I want, and it is this flaw that prmarily irks me.

See what I did was try to get everything for a low price. EW Gold is a great starter block, but you know what? If you try to focus on a section, I mean REALLY focus on a section, you will find yourself quickly running out of textures that inspire you.

There are many many products I am considering now. I have realized that really epic chords is what I am looking for in strings. I very rarely use them as leads, for this reason I want a product that hones in on the strings, and strings alone. A product that provides rich stage/far mic positioning to capture the distant vibe not possible to emulate.

EW platinum has this, but i'm not going to fork over 2 grand to hear the same samples recorded from a different mic positioning. It's the very samples themselves that bother me. I can even tell now when anybody is using EW strings. It's pretty sad they've become that noticable to me now. I used to think, strings are strings, all products are the same.

Far from it.

I am considering now <a href="https://www.bestservice1.de /detail.asp/en/best_service/strin g_essentials_second_edition_peter _siedlaczek/11715a80p229p174p178"
>String Essentials Second Edition</a> for strings ($700 or so)
- ProjectSAM's True Strike 1 and 2 ($600 each, I already have the first, so I guess only the second)
- ProjectSAM's Brass Section (I used to think they were stupid for only focusing on Brass, but LOOK IT, now i'm looking for extra detail and textures that only a brass specialized library would have) ($600)

There is also one other library I am willing to fork over about 2 grand for. it is <a href="http://www.projectsam.com/H ome">Symphonia from ProjectSAM</a>

This library, from just the demos has the warm string textures I find myself constantly running around to make on EW. The brass has great vibes.

There is also the Muse Research Music Receptor I want to consider buying. But that is like... $2600, so not anytime soon.

All together, we're looking at $1,200-$4,000 in damage. Will I be happy with them? I'd hope so.

In any case, all I know is EW's products have failed to inspire me, and continue to fail time and time again.

MJTTOMB 2008-06-21 08:29:50

Best of luck mate. but perhaps the problem isn't the software. you seemed like you were swamping yourself with tons music projects. Sometimes you can just start to burn out after a while.

MaestroRage 2008-06-21 08:29:50

quite right, but i'm certain this isn't burnout. Burnout will effect you for a few weeks, and leave you be. The problem is I am hearing scores upon scores of music that could do a lot of good to a lot of people in my head, but when I sit down and start putting down the notes, those samples... they just bleed the vision. The same vibes, the same feel to the chords.

I am certain that some new sounds is necessary. It is time I started looking at specialized libraries rather then "bundled" libraries. Libraries produced purely for strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion, ethnic, vocals, etc.

Ludzix 2008-06-22 09:12:14

Get Peter Siedlaczek's Complete Classical Collection. It has string chords, brass layers, complete orchestra hits, runs, sequences (although they don't map to the project's tempo) and AWESOME SOLO PHRASES.
Also, there's a choir. With hits. And clusters. And syllables. And lots more. I've got it and I love it.

Ah, do you have any news about when is Symphobia coming out?

MaestroRage 2008-06-22 09:12:14

Symphobia is supposed to come out in July actually. That is if I recall correctly.

And does PSCCC come with presets? That's one thing I couldn't stand about EW's Voices of Passion(?). 6.5 out of the 7.2 gigs of samples were all presets. Vowel articulations you couldn't control. It was horrible. I hate having chords built for me, or passages laid out for me. Even if I wanted to do the exact same thing, I have to do it all myself or I feel dirty. Dirty and semi pathetic :(

They make for awesome study material no doubt, but i'm not going to fork over so much dough for study material you know? Thank you for the recommendation though, i'll look into it!

Smphobia is going to rock, can't wait for it! It will be my center piece.

Suspended-3rd-Chord 2008-06-22 16:36:39

Wow, you're response truly made me sound close minded D:

I completely disregarded an important factor - mic placement. Now that I'm aware of this, I'm going to slowly start to have even more dislike towards EW products > : (

I guess I just assumed since I've seen so many professionals/high end composers use these libraries I thought it was end all, and there was no need to make a real upgrade from here, other than of course a real life orchestra if one was to get the far where they deserved to have a live playing. I hadn't even heard of those products at all...

As for the textures- do you have the kontakt sampler? I don't know, I thought maybe if I had that I would moreso be able to do different things with the samples. The kompakt player doesn't have a lot of controls for in-built manipulation.

MaestroRage 2008-06-22 16:36:39

I have the crappy Kompakt player *that blue thing* that it originally came out with. Now they're selling them in Kontakt 2 format, which provides a LOT more power.

Kompakt is horrible in terms of mastering/equalizing/reverb/delay or just about anything else to be honest. Their reverb sounds too thick or too thin, or too fake. The piece of crap they call their equalizer has no real control over your frequencies and an incredibly frigid grid that won't let you fine tune anything. It's either too sharp, or too dull.

The delay is just pointless.

At least now with the Kontakt format you can adjust each instrument on a much more powerful scale. Kontakt's equalizer/reverb are 10 fold stronger then Kompakt.

And EW's new PLAY system is bugged to shit. I've used it with Ministry of Rock. EVERY SINGLE TIME I use it, the song file becomes bloated and slow. RAM memory leaks are popping up left and right, unstability ensues shortly after... gawd.

DavidOrr 2008-06-22 22:24:35

The multiple mic placement is certainly helpful, but I've found that I usually can get by without it. I agree that some of EW's new products have been a bit lack-luster (I recently got Ministry of Rock, and although the sounds are superb, I'm not impressed with the interface at all). I don't think the play system is bloated as you say though, all the samples are 24-bit, so you're going to require a REALLY hefty computer. I recently build a Quad-core with 8 gig of ram for this very reason, and I still find myself limited when I use too much MOR and Choirs.

But Maestro, it's painfully important that you remember it's not the samples that make the music, it's the musician. Give John Williams, or Don Davis, or Phillip Glass a basic soundfont set and a pentium 1-based computer and they WILL make something that sounds wonderful. Just think of all the quality music that was created with synthesized orchestras 5+ years ago!

Project SAM has some great stuff, and I'm sure whatever you get will certainly supplement what you have now, but don't let your samples control you!

Best of luck man, let me know how everything turns out!

MaestroRage 2008-06-22 22:24:35

I know I know. But even Hans Zimmer completely re-recorded an entire orchestral suite to use as a new arsenal simply because the sounds he's used for so long failed to inspire him!

I'm not saying i'm Hans Zimmer, but I think I know how he feels. Every time I listen to these samples now the song in my head that was bursting to come out just dies. The melody becomes distorted, the chords lose their feeling.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I want to work so badly, but something is stopping me, and this something is going to kill me if I don't take care of it... maybe I should just disappear for like 2 months.

Or maybe i've just hit that bottleneck. Perhaps it's time to just grow up and stop going against the grain, and take all those music theory classes I should have by now.

Fuoco 2008-06-23 00:04:03

Best of luck for you sir! And I agree with David, I usually just pop up a small midi piano from musictheory.net and start creating a melody.

Altough, I also understand how it feels to be sick of a particular sound... therefore I hope you find the equipment that'll make you shine at your best.

DavidOrr 2008-06-23 00:11:14

I know exactly what you mean, and I'm not arguing against it. I'm looking for some fresh samples myself right now actually. But the thing is, I don't NEED them, and I'm sure Hans Zimmer would tell you he doesn't either. Of course they help, they're tools. Having powerful tools is usually going to help in some way, but I don't think that's what you need to focus on right now.

What you need to do is take some time off of composing, dispel all of the samples you have from your mind, and study. Study orchestration, theory, music history. All of that can play its part in developing your compositional technique. Also, training your ear will help IMMENSELY. All composers should have excellent ears, otherwise they won't be able to hear everything they should be listening for. How do you improve your ear? Listen to music, practice sight singing, and work on music dictation (If someone played you a 4-part choral, could you write down the score?).

It's so easy to hide behind samples, but the truth is, that isn't what's holding you back. Honestly, I'd suggest you try and write a few pieces with just a piano, and see how it comes out. You'll start to see holes and weaknesses in your writing that your samples are covering up. You could also try using just MIDI sounds. I did that for years before I had the money to buy my own samples, and I'm very glad that I did. When you eliminate samples and all that jazz, you're left with the actual music. I think the problem you're having is you're listening TOO much to the samples, and not to the music itself.

So, what I think you should do before you get your new samples is backtrack. Do some compositional exercises. Here are some that I do:
1. Write a shory (1 minute) solo piece. After you've done this, write a trio. Then write a piece for a string quartet. Gradually add instruments, and your ear will start hearing everything.
2. Pick 3 or 4 notes of any major or minor scale, and write a piece using ONLY those notes. This will remove the notation aspect from your writing, so you can work on using other aspects of music to make an interesting piece. Dynamics, articulations and rhythms all play an extremely important role that can be easily overlooked.
3. Write a piece using only MIDI sounds. I mentioned this earlier, but it's something that's very useful to do. It helps you put your samples into perspective, and again forces you to listen to the music
4. Write 4-part harmony! Learn voice leading, and practice it. You can apply species counterpoint and voice leading techniques into almost any style of music, and it will make you a much better musician because of it!

These are just a few things you can do, I'd be more than happy to give you more ideas if you need them. But if you really want to improve as a composer, you've got to start working on your technique or you'll stay where you are now for a long time!

MaestroRage 2008-06-23 00:11:14

any and all tips/excercises you think will help i'm all ears for David.

It's easier said then done to disappear for a couple weeks. There are so many deadlines, and so many responsibilities to take care of. I can't just drop it all and go away. Arguably forcing my way through them may force me to produce pure crap, but if I don't do something with them my own guilt will destroy me.

I'm sure you yourself are all too aware how it is. You get one offer, you take it, and then another, and then another. All exciting projects you'd love to be a part of. Soon you find yourself in a constant stream of work with no breaks in the middle.

And though I do agree with you that samples tend to hide things, I feel like i'm not able to express any of my ideas without using keyswitches and different styles of play. The ney/duduk flute is not in midi, and even if they were, they are only powerful when you combine the keys. I've been experimenting a lot with keyswitches lately and I've grown very used to them.

I'll do what you say David, thanks for all the advice.

Suspended-3rd-Chord 2008-06-24 00:07:11

aye, thanks for the great advice David Orr.

Also Maestro, your music sounds like Naruto :P

Balvuc 2008-06-26 14:27:18

I originally came here to ask you to lend some of your art over a project I am working on, but after reading all you said, I have to say that you should take a break of it.

I understand what you mean. I'm a perfeccionist myself, and that is similar to what you feel, in my opinion. Taking a break always sounds plain stupid when you're working on what you love, but still, after you realize you were tired, it won't seem that bad.

During the break, you might feel anxious to come back and restart, but you should take some time to reorganize your mind. Listen to some silence, for a change.

I'd be willing to help, if I could. I can only wish you luck.

Contact me in the future if you will. Have a good time.

Sentinel94 2008-06-28 21:22:51

Maestro came out of the closet! Maestro came out of the closet! lol, jk. I'll still be here, looking forward to new masterpieces, since you supported my piece, "Paid in Blood". Us audio jockies gotta stick together. =b

The-Great-One 2008-06-30 15:19:09

Can't wait to hear some new sounds from you. New inspirations...

Devastus 2008-07-01 12:02:44

I understand very clearly your situation, as I had something like that years back. But as I am a newcomer with EWQL sounds, I think the Symphonic Orchestra sounds are awesome. The possibility to get both tender and massive, mighty sounds almost turns me on :P But I know that the Silver pack has it's weaknesses (to be honest, lots of them). And the Platinum pack does not. It's nowadays around 1,200$ by the way.

If I would be in your situation again, I would have no idea where to start looking. Hope you find what you're looking for. Hope I can get better sounds aswell :P

The-Indifferent-One 2008-07-01 19:40:09

I wait in silent apprehension, Maestro, for your return.

Umburns 2008-07-02 16:22:51

hey man i don't know how recent this is but hey don't get down on urself on this...u get depressed and u will not be able to go any farther so optimism man

Arbiter 2008-07-03 03:59:34

Hi, welcome to life.
Where samples doesn't make the music.
Only hours of abuse, torture, threats and candy.
Also, Hi.

-Chris

Nintechno 2008-07-03 05:39:14

...And here I was thinking that your music could not sound any more professional!
Yet you beat up on yourself for the supposed "Lack of Quality" or whatever it is that is making you unhappy. I really hate to see this, as you are my inspiration.
But anyways, I'm sure it is for the best. I trust that only MaestroRage knows what is best for MaestroRage. But know this: People love what you do. How you make such amazing audio for free, and how you weave your passion and dreams into your songs...amazing.

You are the "Cirque du Soleil" of NG Audio. I look forward to you next "Maestropiece"

Blood-Raven651 2008-07-03 13:26:19

Ya i hate to pester you about this, but i have sent you a couple PMs in the past and one 2-3 days ago...did you get them?

MilkMan268 2008-07-03 20:32:33

I'll miss you =[

Scribbler 2008-07-10 01:55:42

I have heard good things about EW but I have also heard bad things and your post confirms it. Though I am not as adventurous when it comes to buying samples, I dabble more with guitar music and what not though I am interested in orchestration now. I am still looking around and am by no means an expert. Continue the search and inform me of your findings.

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