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I consider this account an important chapter in my life
Selcuk Bor
@MaestroRage
Age 37, Male
eCommerce Manager
Toronto
Joined on 8/22/06
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- Audio Scouts
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- Supporter:
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Comments
It's really a shame that this has to be the way the Audio Portal works... Zero voters are a musicians worst enemy at times, and at other times the artist can get their support to bring down a rival artist. A few of these 0 voters might realize that all they are doing is wasting their time and that their efforts are only decreasing a score that doesn't really matter as much as the music it's supposed to represent. However, there will always be some thirteen-year old with a grudge against a musician because they gave him a low score (that he deserved) and joins the hordes of angry people and 0-vote every single song by him without listening to a second of it. I wish that the beauty and hard work that was put into the piece would make them realize that it doesn't deserve a zero, and in the end they would realize that it's not worth doing this because the dedicated fans that see the music for what it is are the ones who should truly control the score.
We all might get annoyed at a certain artist, but is it really worth all the trouble to 0-vote every one of their songs every single day? I mean, if someone did that to you, you have so many songs that it could very well take someone almost half an hour to go through your stuff. And what does it get them? Maybe a .01 subtraction from the score every few days. I can see why people do it, but... ugh, they just don't get that, in the big scheme of things, it doesn't matter much.
I'm glad people like you stand up to these 0-voters, but it's really a shame that some artists (Karco, for example) have stopped submitting because of the problems people like them cause. It's just so sad that this is what hundreds of people devote hours of their life to.
You're right, I believe that you will always win.
right you are, the 0 raters have time and time again knocked away real potential. Karco being one of the more recent. I know it's hard to fight what seems like a losing battle. I was lucky and very thankful my persistence paid off, I got a fanbase, but for many who don't get that despite submitting for a long time.
It can just be infuriating, and a very large amount of 0 voters come from this very area. Musicians who are angry that nobody notices them, and so they try to make sure nobody else notices those who are already noticed. Or of course get noticed by knocking away everybody else.
Though I will keep fighting, I hope other artists will feel like I do and continue to fight as well. There is just no excuse to what they're doing, but we can't let them win. Ever.
That is quite the speech and I can't say that I disagree with in at all. In fact I fully agree with it in every aspect stated. It is not often that any one person will stand up for a simple ideal and that that one ideal is the basis upon which all artists of merit stand. So often do I find talent in the sinkhole of those that no not what a note is, so often do I find talent in the dark recesses of this Newgrounds, and more often then not it is those people that are the ones that should have stayed and fought. I, in fact, am one of them, perhaps not someone of any real talent or strength, but with a love for music nonetheless.
It is that simple fact, like many others that come up throughout ones life, that simple reminder that 'you fall only to get back up stronger'. There are so many people out there that take sanctuary in others misery. But in the end it is their own failure, in whatever aspect, that drives them forward towards the end that they believe is justifiable. I am not someone of any real education, but I think that any person that bothers to look at any one of these sad sad people will see a creature that may or may not be human.
In the end, to relish within anothers sorrow is perhaps the greatest crime humanity may have. As for that, I thank you Maestro, I think that perhaps now, finally, I may just come back....and I will come back swinging.
BRING IT ON YOU IDIOT TROLLS, you have nothing on us that persevere and follow the road that we chose long long ago, and I...will...NOT...give...up.
-AJ-
I don't condemn them entirely, the large majority of 0 raters are not trolls, or at least, were not trolls because they wanted to be. Many of them are hurt by the small portion of 0 raters that ARE just voting 0 for kicks, and those hurt musicians turn around and hit somebody else who is now above them because they were hit *and often they'll assume that other musician did it*, etc etc until we are where we are.
I do agree that it is a personal failure if you let somebody destroy your passion. Nobody has the right to tell you that you can't do something, that you're worthless and that you should stop.
glad you'll be coming back. Give them hell.
Man, that actually reminds me of the days where we got scores like 4.40 on almost every submission. Nowadays the scorings are increasing slightly and fall down at some point. I sometimes get a 0.00 score on a submission that was just submitted a few seconds ago which is a proof that the presence of those guys is pretty strong regardless of what time we got.
I think it isn't such a huge problem for the artists that already had a few success stories here and there with their music since people know their names and quality standards. It's a real issue and just plain rude towards every new artist who joins the portal. Chris Haigh for example does extraordinary scoring work and seems to suffer under these people right now and that while I always thought that he'd never have a problem with his music.
Maybe people just want us to be like automated machines who just upload work and put a dot into the commentary box, blog posts or responses excluded. If you don't express yourself with words then you shouldn't be able to get anyone to hate you, right? Not at all, it's the artists skill that frightens people. Literally.
haha, I remember those days too. The only thing increasing sir is the vote count, as more 0's tend to slip in. Though I haven't gotten a 0 in seconds yet I did get 0's before any other vote on many occasions. So you're right, they're all over the place, all the time.
And I agree with you, artists who have had the opportunity to make a name aren't as badly affected in regards to a fanbase, but you are one of those who have felt this wave of 0 raters. I've noticed your scores plummet ever since you had Entering Stronghold up on the list for 3 weeks straight as number one. Rather then rejoicing at another artist who has made an impact your songs have been damaged. But nobodies scores have been as badly damaged as David Orr's ever since Castle Crashers came out and people learned his track 4 Brave Champions was used for the title screen.
Just brutal. So the level of success is proportionate to the level of 0 raters that follow you around. It's almost like a secondary fanbase.
Also I was not aware of Chris Haigh submitions, can you link me? I'd love to take a listen, perhaps feature him on the front page.
Thats was freakin inspirational!
Write a song about it. I beg you! It would be the most awesome song ever.
*Starts off sad and sombre, and then gets really inspirational*
haha, nah. I refuse to give these 0 raters any more attention. This was my declaration of war on them, it's a shame they have no chance of winning. After this, business like always.
Oh yes, I went on David Orr's page not too long ago and noticed the low scores which don't represent the great music behind them at all. Overall I think that there's barely a submission around here that justifies a zero at all...
You're able to find Chris Haigh's page on chrishaigh.newgrounds.com. I think just one listen to Sammy's Flashback should be convincing. I actually wanted to give him a front page feature as well but I'd have to wait around a week until I'm able to make another front page post.
it's true, he's a man who knows what he's doing. I'll front page his song next week. Thanks for the heads up Dan.
And thankfully David Orr has moved comfortably into the business world. He's pretty much left Newgrounds but he's left to chase after his dream, and in my eyes that's perfectly understandable. The 0 raters could not destroy him either.
I just got a few words to say to you good sir:
You got some BIG BALLS to face all the 0 raters knowing that this could probably bring you into more trouble and get your audio 0bombed...
.....once again you've gained my respect!
I posted this rant more for the musicians then the 0 raters. It angers me how these worthless benign people have not only deterred great artists, but killed the passion of many budding ones. Why do they have to attack the new guy just learning how to work a lead synth?! Why make them think they're completely worthless when their potential is just waiting to unfold!?
Frustrating more to see them go then to see my songs get attacked. I hope some of them will see this somehow and draw strength from it.
Keep up the fight Johnny, don't let the raters win.
lol. although it can be frustrating because lower scores = lower exposure, needless to say, i could never take a rating very seriously that doesnt have an explanation behind the score, low or high. it's truly hard to tell with anonymous voting. plenty of suggestions have been made to give a partial solution to this problem, but they have all been shut down. The one idea that I really dont understand which hasnt been implemented yet is a counter that waits a minute before we could even vote on a song...that would defintely slow down the mass voting surge. oh well. its really not that big of deal as so much people make it out to be ;)
the minute rule is a good one. I'm not sure why that's not there seeing as supposingly the voting for the flash doesn't enable until you've watched it. Then again we don't have a blam/save system either.
It's never about the ratings S3C. It's about the people's reaction to them. Could you imagine what kind of force the AP would be if people just stopped randomly 5'ving/0'ing?
An idealist dream to the core I know.
remember, don't let the raters win ;D!
I'm sorry... I'll stop now.
(j/k lol ;P)
your so lucky you're already approved to the audio portal >:(!!!
A time will come when NG is a good and uplifting place to be in. Until that day, I will be out making money while they waste their time trying to be a part of a history that will not be recorded. What big label cares about a song that gets #1 on the Top 5 in the Audio Portal :P
Not too say that their lacks any integrity or good people here, but being here for the right reasons sure as hell make up for the wrong reasons. Then again, anything I say is redundant, since I'm leaving ^_^
to each their own sir. I believe there is great potential here. Yes I agree they haven't reached it but Newgrounds is the ONLY place I know where budding artists contribute freely. It really is the only place I know where it's everything by everyone.
I will be out making money too, don't think i'll be dedicating my life to making music for Newgrounds, I write music for people with a non exclusive license so I can put it here for free use later.
I hope you will return one day though, down right shame to lose you, though i'm sure you've been told that enough times by now.
make a few techno songs and be happy...anything else will be killed in action. *shares a tear for the AP* >:(
NEVAH!
Deserting my post to bring in a flock of support would be as bad as letting the raters win seeing as their actions is what made me change. I'm not going anywhere.
There is no place for us to go, Newgrounds is the only website that will appreciate artists who make songs on a computer. And even then there's the 0 bombers and the thieves. Those assholes that scour the lesser known artists and take their songs only to re post them as their own. That is why I have refrained from submitting my songs to the internet, I've been fucked over way too many times.
this is not true Ostent. Soundclick.com, mixposure.com, garageband.com, reverbnation.com. Just about any music site will take computer made songs. Hell every song I have is computer made and i'm selling this stuff on sites like audiojungle.net!
Computer made music has a large future on the internet and elsewhere.
It's true you can't stop thieves. I've had a bunch of my stuff stolen loads of times but really that won't stop me from submitting either. Because unlike most other musicians I DO know where to go to get legal help and I DON'T hesitate to do it. My first warnings are usually my last.
You should submit Ostent. Or release your songs on sites like tunecore.com and sell them in album format.
Keep up the good fight.
i completley agree with you there maestro, 0 raters are just irritating and self destroying and i dare to say that you speak for me aswell with this post.
Tyranastrasz
glad to hear it! Keep up the good fight, give the buggers hell!
You're so lucky you're already approved for the grammar portal. RRRRRRAAAAAAAGGGGGGEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I banned your mom.
I was deleted in the grammar portal
all I dud wuz tlak lyk dis fur 1 snetnece :(
We will prevail! Well spoken sir!
Don't let the bastards win!
Well said, I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't ask for more, don't let the bastards win.
Accidently hit the Submit button >_<
Your words are inspiring, due to the fact two of my songs have recently been reduced to 'garbage' when a lot of people have zeroed them, Although I make my music to my own personal taste (weither it be good or bad Idc) and it's discoaging to see that people think so. So thank you for your words, it was something 'the little guys' all needed to hear. Especially from someone's work whose is as good as yours.
Thank you.
the thing is Fedora chances are people don't think your tracks suck. The attacks on you had nothing to do with your skill level. 0 Raters also like to attack songs that are already low because they like to think how much that person is suffering now.
Don't let them win. If you keep submitting they start to get annoyed at why you've not given up.
(I meant the good work from you, not mine XD)
Thank you. Just Thank you.
Don't let them win Mich. Don't let them beat you.
xelitesniper
Wish everyone thought that way. Some people left just because they saw some zero votes on their submissions.
MaestroRage
a shame, a lot of people could become really great if they found the strength to keep going. I'm hoping one of them might decide to join the fight and keep going.